Leadership By Example
25,000 civilians killed since Iraq invasion.
But don't panic, only 37% were killed by the occupational forces ... ooops I mean liberation forces.
That is only a little more than 9,000 thousand people.
The reason this is not terrorism is:
1) when the super powers kill civilians it is not terrorism, it is called collateral damage.
2) when only brown people die it is not terrorism.
3) All is fare in love and war as long as only brown people die.
4) Terrorism implies intention of terrorizing somebody. All these people were killed by accident with no intension of terrorizing them.
5) There will no doubt be an apology about it in the future. Terrorists don't have the integrity to feel sorry about things they do.... so stop whining already.
6) Let by gones be by gones, water under the bridge. All this happened long time ago ... like earlier this year and who can remember anything that happened before the Michael Jackson trial anyway.
7) Don't forget that about 100,000 Iraqis were killed every year by the sanctions before the war and so this is less and so it is better. See! .... things are getting better .... stop being so pessimistic and so negetive.
But don't panic, only 37% were killed by the occupational forces ... ooops I mean liberation forces.
That is only a little more than 9,000 thousand people.
The reason this is not terrorism is:
1) when the super powers kill civilians it is not terrorism, it is called collateral damage.
2) when only brown people die it is not terrorism.
3) All is fare in love and war as long as only brown people die.
4) Terrorism implies intention of terrorizing somebody. All these people were killed by accident with no intension of terrorizing them.
5) There will no doubt be an apology about it in the future. Terrorists don't have the integrity to feel sorry about things they do.... so stop whining already.
6) Let by gones be by gones, water under the bridge. All this happened long time ago ... like earlier this year and who can remember anything that happened before the Michael Jackson trial anyway.
7) Don't forget that about 100,000 Iraqis were killed every year by the sanctions before the war and so this is less and so it is better. See! .... things are getting better .... stop being so pessimistic and so negetive.
There is a way between voice and presence where information flows.
In disciplined silence it opens.
With wandering talk it closes. .... Rumi
8:44 PMIhath,
Remind us again why you thought Bush should be re-elected?
Peace and love,
Tilli
6:43 AM
i understand the point of posting on this subject again and again and again. ok, you're anti-US. ok, you're pro-terrorists. ok, i get this. how many posts are needed to tell the whole your bizarre views? you complain about the war, you complain about the sactions before the war, and you complain about how nobody did anything about saddam for years.....so you cant be pleased. you would obviously bitch about anything that happens where 1 person dies, so where is your independent credibility? plus, you cite an extremely left-wing, anti-war newspaper for your number of dead iraqis. you could have done better research on this.
11:38 AM
Here's the original source for the figures quoted by the Guardian (PDF, 650K).
By the way Ihath, the new picture looks like it was made by a cameraman in Iraq, just after he's been... shot.
4:11 PM
Yeah, the PDF is an interesting read. Reading through it you can find some important steps that were taken to insure maximum casualties were assigned to the US and minimum are attributed to anti-occupation forces. To there credit, they do spell out their methodology for those who will read through it but most people won't. They will just look at the highly deceptive 37% vs. 9% and shout about the bad old US.
2:29 AM
To say that being appalled by the civilian casualties in Iraq inflicted by US forces is equivalent to being pro-terrorist is quite an amazing stretch. Almost as astounding as the global clamour when a bunch of people were killed in a single attack in London, as compared to the global silence over even more people being killed every week in Iraq. Although I can't say that anybody mentioned what colour the people in London were, apparently just being Londoners made them special in some way, much more special than people who live in Baghdad or Mosul. So I don't think Ihath is right about the colour thing, it's more a matter of political and religious affiliations these days than race. Let's face it, all Iraqis are Muslims and all Muslims are Ay-rabs and all Ay-rabs are terrorists who want to kill all Jews who are all Israelis who are small and oppressed and need help from American Christians to hang onto Jerusalem so that Armageddon can unfold in the most propitious way. It's all about the rapture...oh yeah, and oil. Who can waste time counting civilian casualties when such important games are afoot? Shoot Ihath, where's your perspective? If you're going to bitch about a few ten-thousands dead civilians, you'll obviously bitch about anything! Oh yeah, and don't forget Terry Shiavo and that chick who got killed in Arruba, those were pretty big stories too.
How do you expect to make an American Christian Right/Oil Lobby omelet without breaking a few thousand Iraqi eggs? Jeez, get real Ihath.
8:05 AM
Tough post. Not sure its digestible, but still ruminating. Also chewing on the distinction between "criminal activity" and "insurgent activity" and why no reasonable, honest, disinterested human being could consider these "terrorism." Hard to stay focused, though, as I can't help but wonder in my presently "disassembled" state at other peculiarities of the English language. I mean, when you get right down to it, at least where I am mentally, surgeons cannot be distinguished from butchers, lovers from rapists, a democratic republic from a semi-dictatorship, the genuine from the disingenuous,
and on and on. Very confusing.
10:45 AM
Dear Ihath,
I think you make a good point. On one level, war is war, whether one puts the label 'terrorism' on it or not (or some other label).
Last night, I watched a movie about the internment of Japanese Americans during WW2. I wonder if history will repeat itself, now that Islam has declared war against us. Perhaps all it would take is a bio/chemical or dirty nuclear bomb in a large city, to provoke people here. Just as the Iraqis have been provoked by the way Saddam was removed from power (and its aftermath).
I don't understand your thing about 'brown people'. My wife is a 'brown' person. Perhaps you are commenting on the media reports? If so, I don't think it's about skin color. I think it's about old news vs. new news. People dying everyday in Iraq from military or insurgent activity is old. People dying in London from non-military and non-insurgent activity is new and fresh. Especially when the main audience is related to England.
Later...
12:28 PM
Dear Ihath,
Recalling your previous entry about the Iranian police women, I offer this about Iraqi women soldiers:
http://www4.army.mil/news/article.php?story=7637
Later...
1:42 PM
Ihath speaking as an indian (in the UK at the moment but still...) whose country has had to deal with islamic extremism and conflict (we're brown and poor!), it might or might not come as a surprise to you that the whole world doesn't actually hate America and the west. Asia is having to deal with its own islamic extremism.
But in reference to your statements, and in return
1)When islamic extremists kill anyone its liberation.
2)Only when non-muslims have to kill muslims to survice is it oppression.
3)All is fair in love and war, its always the non-muslim's fault.
4)Fighting for liberty implies fight for how you want to live, it doesn't matter how much any nation bends over backwards to accomodate you, you'll never be free, so fight.
5)Always concentrate on the west and its oppression, quote the brown people but ignore how they actually feel or their suffering
6)I concur, like who can remember the Sebrenica massacre or the war in Kosovo. The west never does anything. Darfur? never heard of it!
7)Don't forget the brown people, actually do forget them, but when it becomes politically expediant to round on all the white people throw a big hug round them!
I realise you're an Iraqi-canadian and understandably focussed on Iraq. But please enough of the crap about 'the west' and brown people (ok its what pissed me off the most). Americans and America has treated me and other people from the sub-continent a damn sight better than we're treated by the arabs.
I doubt you know or care about the other conflicts in the world (some far more horrendus and tragic) thats fine. You're an Iraqi. But before going on about the 'white' people oppressing the 'brown' people you'd be advised to see how those 'brown' people treat the 'browner' people.
The world still aspires to the United States, can anyone say that about the arabs?
4:53 PM
I think a large part of the white vs. brown thing is that the brown people don't have the chattering pundits and anchors and the TVs the whites have.
al-Jazeera is planning to enter the US market. Very good thing to hear. It would be good to get the USA out of its cloistered media-brainwashed state.
6:15 AM
Ihath,
I would like to point out that the biggest killers of brown people are other brown people. The wars in Africa are endless and the middle-east has been a bloodbath for the last 25 years - middle-easterners killing other middle-easterners by the hundreds of thousands.
2:05 PM
plus, us Uhmercans have been knocking each other off to the tune of tens of thousands each year due to guns, plus lots more hurt.
http://www.lcav.org/about/gun_violence.asp
And we don't call that terrorism; we call it our legal right!
I won't mention the carnage on the highways, probably a lot worse.
White, brown, it doesn't much matter. We human beans spend oodles of money and resource just to kill each other, and for lotsa reasons too.
I propose we get rid of all explosive, posionous and any types of weapons used to kill and give each person on earth the right to give 10 face slaps. Let's say a limit of getting 5 face slaps each year.
Then we can spend our resources on something more constructive.
Just a fantasy of mine.
6:47 AM
Most gun deaths in America are suicides. That doesn't count as crime. I notice that your link doesn't point that out - perhaps ou could provide us with a better researched link?
Most of the "carnage" on the highways are accidents but no one is going to give up their cars.
9:01 AM
Dear Ihath,
Here is a table (scroll down a bit) that helps put the attacks in London in perspective. It shows what a drop in the bucket they amount to, even during the same time frame:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Later...
10:35 AM
“when the super powers kill civilians it is not terrorism, it is called collateral damage.”
What is it called when an Arab, namely the Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, also known as the “Fuhrer of the Arab World” rounded up and massacred hundreds of thousands of Serbian Orthodox Christians. Under his control, as well as the Croatian Ante Pavelic over 800,000 Yugoslavian civilians were murdered at Jacenovac, the third largest death camp.
I wonder if they were just collateral damage?
I wonder how many innocent white civilians died when caught up in the combat with the;
13th division of the largest Muslim Nazi SS unit, known as the “Hanjar”, made up of Tunisians, Moroccans and Algerians.
21st Waffen SS division or Skanderbeg made up of Croatian Muslims.
and the 23rd Waffen SS known as the “Kama” made up of predominately Albanian Muslims.
It is no coincidence the Germany ended its policy of expelling Jews and decided to execute the Final Solution only after the Mufti arrived in Germany.
"The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures."
- Adolf Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) in his Nuremburg Trials testimony.
Here’s a quote from the evil bastards own hand:
.“Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: 'The Jews are yours.'”
- Former Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini in his post-WWII memoirs.
"We admired the Nazis. We were immersed in reading Nazi literature and books . . . . We were the first who thought of a translation of Mein Kampf. Anyone who lived in Damascus at that time was witness to the Arab inclination toward Nazism," recalled Sami al-Joundi, one of the founders of Syria’s ruling Ba'ath Party.
Ba’ath? Isn’t that the name of the former Iraqi ruling party?
Would anyone here who speaks Arabic like to translate Bissama Allah, oria alard Hitler for the fine readers? It was all over the marketplaces when Al Hussein returned to the Middle East a hero in 1948.
The fact of the matter is, that all the troubles in the Middle East are directly linked to the pogroms initiated by the former Mufti of Jerusalem, not American or Western foreign policies. While it is often cited that it is the Saudi Wahabis that are responsible for the current climate of hatred pervading throughout the Arab world it is an agenda that has been fomenting since the end of WWI.
They’re only desire is to reinitiate the Third Reich under the banner of Islam, to return to the “glory days” when they were powerful enough that they could eradicate the world of anyone who disagreed with their ideology. The groups such as Al Qaeda, et al are direct offspring of their plan to exterminate non-Muslims or anyone who will not bend to their will.
I suppose it’s defensible when brown people set out to exterminate entire populations of white people but God forbid any brown people die as a result of the ensuing resistance to their own demise.
It is always regrettable when innocent people are caught up in a conflict not of their choosing but it is the regrettable that the same people are the ones allowing their lands to be breeding grounds for hordes of murderous sociopaths.
You want people to stop dying? Stop the killing; the “brown people” have been murdering non-brown people since the 1920’s if you know even rudimentary recent history. Even longer if you consider what the Ottomans did even prior to that. It’s time the brown people acknowledge their own complicity in instigating the violence in the first place, and expose the militants for what they really are, born again Nazi’s.
1:03 AM
"Most gun deaths in America are suicides."
And where did we pull that out of, oh LinkLess One?
What a strange macabre thing to write. It reminds me of a line from "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum": It's against Roman Law to kill yourself; the penalty's death.
1:18 AM
Darn itchie "trigger" finger. I meant to add ".....oh LinkLess One? The very site whose line I posted!
It still is a macabre aspect of life in Murka.
6:17 AM
Honestly, I really resent the "brown" references and I deplore what in my view is nothing more than obfuscation. Ignorance can many times be remedied by a Google search coupled with honest critical inquiry and analysis. But willed ignorance, a concept which Soren Kierkegaard discussed if memory serves, that is a very different problem with little if any solution, especially for the strong willed.
7:09 AM
Dear Ihath,
Here is an interesting view from Pakistan, another place where brown people are terrorized by daily bomb blasts:
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm
Later...
11:33 PM
This is silly. Stop the "brown" victimization stuff.
The fact in Iraq is that Iraqis are being murdered wholesale by the terrorists and their kidnapper cousins. Coalition and Iraqi soldiers are together constantly counter-attacking the terrorists and criminals, evening the score as much as they can and unfortunatly occasionally killing civilians.
Of course we can't truly determine who is civilian or soldier among the dead Iraqis because the terrorist refuse any kind of uniform (the prime requisite under international law for geneva conv. protection). Why won't they allow that simple courtesy to civilians: because they care more about their own hides then the people you foolishly think they are fighting for.
9:22 PM
I'd like you to imagine some moment in the future, say 50 years out, when Iraq is as free and as safe as Canada. In such a future will it have been worth it to throw Saddam off and to fight the damn terrorists?
Or would have been better for Iraq to remain backward forever. After all people like you who demand better can always emmigrate to Canada.
Joshua Scholar
8:42 PM
Recently, they had some Live 8 concerts to raise awareness abut African poverty and pressure the leaders of the G8 to take action (instead of more lip service).
Africa: a continent consisting primarily of black people which has constantly been under attack from Europe directly or in the form of colonialism for the last few hundred years.
G8: richest countries in the world, which are almost all white (with the exception of Japan) and in western Europe and North America.
It's funny how people get the wrong idea that not being white is disadvantageous. Obviously the world is full of flowers and ponies and we all eat candy for dinner.
Why don't you fools just cut the shit: you were wrong about Iraq and you are still wrong now. Deal with it, don't try to bullshit the rest of us.
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